Dating ramayana period


He has fixed the dates of those Literatures as well. The reasoning and the logic in his work is laudable. He has pointed out even the teeth in Rama's mouth. He is open minded having scientific attitude therefore he has given one evidence showing the date of the Ramayana in the Treta Yuga i. Though it goes against the date he has derived, he has produced it for other researchers to work further. That shows his clear mind as a reasearcher. Some times it may happen that on calculation a planet's position may not come in the Sign of Zodiac mentioned in the text but may.

About this problem Dr. Vartak gives explanation as follows - Suppose on a clock there is some insect seated near 1 O' clock position. If one observer tells that position, second observer may try to see it between 12 and I ; while the third may try to see it between 1 and 2. The same thing may happen in the case of Naksatras or Rasis. If Jupiter is said to be present in Cancer, it may be calculated in Mithuna. One sign of Zodiac or one Naksatra here or there is immaterial.

Vartak has shown that much accuracy. Other scholars give a position almost diametrically opposite to that mentioned in the text and, therfore, their views are unacceptable. Vartak, a physician and surgeon by profession, is deeply involved in research about scientific knowledge in ancient India. He is also a visionary spiritualist and uses his intuitive powers for scientific research. In when the U. Vartak explored the Mars in his vision on 10 th August , and kept his report published. Vartak's report except one point of his 21 published points.

The remaining point was of the black patches oh the red rocks caused by the ancient moss which died and blackened a lew lacs of years ago, when water on the Mars disappeared. Vartak's report about the ancient moss and water is tallied 22 years later by the American Space-ship 'Path- finder' in Vartak made second trip to the Mars and foretold about docking of Viking 1 and Viking 2.

His report tallied with NASA report in He visited the planet Jupiter on 27 th August and published his findings which were tallied later by the American Space-ship v Voyager ' in Instead of dwelling more in the foreword, we prefere to reproduce below the letters of two scholars about Dr. One is a great Mathematician Wrangler G. Another stalwart in history is Dr, Hira Lai Gupta who has expressed his opinion about the work of Dr.

Vartak in various conferences held all over India during the last 20 years. It sheds considerable light on the dating of various incidents in the lile of Rama at a time when Archcaological excavations have not yielded any tangible and convincing result. Your approach is novel and laudable and interest of a medical practitioner in the subject, foreign to his scope, is admirable. I congratulate you for this great contribution. Perhaps you are the second scholar in the country next to Lokaihaliya B. It is a novel method worth trying wherever it may be applicable. In the absence of any other method it may be incontrovertible and convincing too.

It may solve several historical riddjes. Not being conversant with Astronomy, lam interested in your findings. You have fixed the dale of Mahabharata by the same method, I would request you to send me various dates of the incidents of the life of Shri. Rama as well as articles on Mahabharta and dates of the Epic battle and Gita. As historians are not the competent authority to judge the veracity of your paper, may I advise you to give wider publicity to your articles in the standard Astronomical journals of India and abroad after modifying the titles that you may receive authoritative and worthwhile comments of some notable scholar of Astronomy on your method and calculations.

When the subject is thrashed out by competent astronomical authorities, the historian's attention may be drawn to it and may be considered for acceptance. Yours Sincerely, H L. Gupta, Be, Yartak had already shown his paper to Wrangler Charrdratreya who was a mathematician as well as an Astronomer. We are publishing his comments here. The Late Shri M. Pant who was also a great mathematician Astronomer had approved Dr. Various methods have been used, using historical references in the Puranas, language conditions, archeaological findings etc.

A few have used astronomical methods to determine the time of the Mahabharata. It is possible to determine the date of an astronomical reference by considering the movements of the planets including the Sun and the Moon in the various constellations of the sky, the movement of the Earth with its axis inclined to the ecliptic and the precession and nutation of this axis as well as the seasonal changes referred to in the text. I had the pleasure of going through the work done by Dr.

The astronomical references in the Mahabharata have been gone through carefully and the positions of the planets Saturn, Jupiter, Mars etc. This has been done by considering the references from the view-point of consistency. A particular period has been obtained from the references to various dynasties of kings, account of writings of foreign visitors to India and of references in those countries in this connection like Greece, Egypt and Persia, The periods of the various planets being known, have been used to find the positions of the planets, including Rahu and Ketu in the constellations of the sky by mathematical method.

These positions agree with those given in the Mahabharata text. The seasonal references to various incidents in the Mahabharata arc investigated and they also agree with calculations of the exact dales during the period mentioned. The Tropical year and the Sidcral year have been used for verifying these dates. Thus the references to the Equinoxes and Solstices Ayanas have also been accounted for. Of course, it is presumed that the astronomical references are genuine and do refer to the incident mentioned in the text of the Mahabharata.

I am unable to say if all the references astronomical have been taken into account. But it is quite reasonable to conclude that the dates as obtained by Dr. It has been shown that the other dates are inconsistent with the references. Additional efforts will have to be put in by calculating the positions of the planets at some other times and verifying the method used.

It is possible to find the dates of other works, medieval and ancient, and verifying these with the actuals as known to us. It will also be useful to determine the changes in the seasons mentioned and comparing them to the period obtained by applying the principle of the two systems of calendar - Solar and the Luni-Solar and calculating the difference due to the precession of the earth's axis.

All in all, it is possible to state that the dates as derived by Dr. Vartak are more correct than the various other dates propounded by other workers in the field who have been carried away by the statements made by Western scholars. They have been prejudiced against the richness of the Indian Civilization in the past and have always tried to attribute much later dates and consequently to denigrate the glorious past of India. Varlak designed the cover himself to depict the main point of this research on the cover so that inquisitive readers may refer to the map of the sky presented on the cover and judge the accuracy of Vaimiki's descriptions.

The executive committee is thankful to Mrs. Anuria Sahi, Shri V. Bhide and S hr i N. Dixit for carefully reading and correcting the proofs. We also thank the donors and Mr. Milind Karnik, as well as Shri Umakanl Kcndhe for collecting donations. We are glad to publish the list of the donors who helped us for this publication: For Correct pronouneialions of the Sanskrila words we have used letters like this.

Research implies a critical and scientific enquiry seeking all possible evidence lhal may enlighten the real fact. Research is a scientific undertaking which by means of logical and scientific methods, aims to discover new facts. In my research I have done an investigation to ascertain the dates for which purpose I have put forward an entirely origional data to discover an unexplored horizon of knowledge. I have used in my work scientific and rational methods and have taken into account many branches of modern science e.

Astronomy3, Meteorology, Biology etc, to fix the dates. It is very difficult to fix the date of any great personality or literature of ancient India because of the great philosophy of India. I am great, my name should go down in the annals of history, my work should be praised by the future generations and such other thoughts did not arise in the minds of great Indian personalities because their philosophy taught them that whatever they did was the task given by the God Almighty and was done by Him through the medium of their physical bodies.

Because of this notion, the great Indian personalities did not try to leave a stamp on history. Even the great Marat has of recent past eg. Sivaji the great and Bajirao the great, did not write anything in their own praise for fame. Therefore it is very difficult to establish the period of any great man of India. The invaders before Muslims also eaused the same dcs true! Therefore, there is no due left to fix the dales of the past history of India.

Rigveda to Robotics: Scientific Dating of Vedic and Ramayan Era

It will be totally wrong to say that there was no measurement of lime in ancient India. They did not count the years as we do at present, from a particular king or saint. Now-a-days we count the years from the Christ and say A. Anno Domini or B. By using the present method of counting years how much knowledge we achieve is questionable. Asoka ruled much before Sivaji is the only meaning derived. If the same thing is sensed by any other method what is wrong in it? This statement also gives the meaning that Nanda ruled I years after Pariksit.

Practically there is no difference in the modern and the ancient statement, then why label our ancestors as ignorant barbarians? If we consider carefully it will be revealed that the Indian calendar is more useful and accurate. For example, if we meet with a shipwreck and are thrown on an isolated island inhabitated by no human being, then in a few days we will forget the date and month of the modern scientific calendar which hangs on the walls of every man's home.

We can never recount the date and the month again. But a man who knows some primary things about the Indian calendar can recognise the Tithi, Naksatra and the lunar month by just looking at the Moon. The Full moon indicates Pournima, half moon Astami, quarter moon indicates Chalurlhi and so on. The star seen near the moon indicates Naksatra of the day. The star which rises in the east at the sun-set indicates the name of the lunar month. A star near the full moon also gives the name of the lunar month. Thus just by looking at the sky at the night a man can fix the Tithi, Naksatra and the lunar month.

IT he looks at the rising Sun he can recognise whether it is Uttarayana, the northern journey of the Sun or Daksinayana, the southern journey of the Sun. From the position of the rising Sun on the horizon he can recognise the Rlu or the season too. Thus Panchanga is complete. Thus the Indian Panchanga calendar is really eternal. The ancient Indian sages had noted that the rising Sun goes on swinging on the eastern horizon from left to right and back. When the rising Sun goes from our left hand side towards the right hand side, the period is called as Daksinayana.

Daksina means right side. Approaching a certain limit of the Daksina i. This turning point is called as the end of Daksinayana or beginning of Uttarayana. This is called as Winter Solstice. This point was also held as the beginning of 6isira Rtu. The ancients observed extreme cold at this point. It is the end of the Hemanta Rtu.

The name Hemanta is suggestive of cold Heman as well as snow. Anta means the end or inside. There was cold and possibly snow fall in the Rtu and at its end, so the name. According to the modern scientific calendar Daksinayana Anta or Winter Solstice falls on 22 nd December. From 22 nd December begins the Sisira Rlu wherein for two months the cold gradually diminishes up to the 21st February. Sisira is the word derived from shivers of the cold. At the end of Uttarayana, the northern journey of the Sun, when the Sun reaches the extreme north, there is extreme heal. From this point which is called as the Summer Solstice the Sun returns and travels towards the south.

From the Summer Solstice there begin rains and so is held as the beginning of the Varsa Rtu, rainy season. Ancient Indian sages discovered these four nodes- the two solstices the summer and the winter and the two equinoxes the Vernal and the Autumnal. By these records it was observed that the Sun on the nodes receded backwards very slowly.

In the modern science this receding of the Sun is named as the Precession of the Equinoxes and its rate is one degree in 72 years or one Naksatra in years, or Many times the Naksatra-position of the Sun on the solstice is recorded as in the Taittiriya Brahmana l,7 which states that K. While Anuradha to Apabharani were the Yama Naksatras being situated on the southern course of the Sun.

This discloses the fact that on the Winter Solstice the Sun was between K. This means that the Sun has receded by 12 Naksatras. Calculating at the rate of years for one Naksatra, the period for 12 Naksatras comes to years. Subtracting from it we gel years before Christ as the Date of Taittiriya Brahmana. If we take the exact position of Kfttika as 26 40' we get the exact year as B.

In this way roughly we can estimate the time if we know the Naksatra- position of the Sun on Solstices or Equinoxes. The lunar months devised by the ancient Indians are such that if we know the name of the lunar month, we can fix the position of the full Moon and from it can fix the Sun's position. For example, if we know that Rama was born in Chaitra Masa, it means that the full moon was near Naksalra Chitra.

The full Moon is degrees opposite the Sun. Thus the name of the lunar month can give us an approximate position of the Sun. When it is stated that the Varsa Rtu began in the Asadha Masa, it is evident that in that month the full Moon was near Asadha Naksatra, suggesting the Sun's position in Punarvasu Naksatra. From this data we can understand how many years have passed if we know the position of beginning of the rainy season at present in India.

At present the rainy season begins with the Sun on Mrga Naksatra. The above statement shows Punarvarsu. Two Naksatras are changed. Considering the rate of the precession as years per Naksatra, we get years. It shows that years ago the statement was written. If we have a precise Tithi we can find out the precise position of the Sun and can calculate the precise date. That is the importance of Indian calendar. But we do not give credit to that importance. High Tide related to Tithi. We can find out the time of high tide from Tithi; but not from the Date according to the modern scientific calendar.

The method is thus: For example, take Tithi The three-fourth of the Tithi Ls 9. Therefore al l 2 noon and 12 midnight there will he high tide. The date in any modern calender can not give us this information, hence Tithi is more useful for a sailor or a layman. For Historians also, the Indian system of reckoning lime is important because we can calculate thousands of years before or after a certain even from the data. But this method was totally neglected by the scholars, foreign as well as Indian.

European scholars did not know that the lime can be calculated by a method based on Astronomy. Therefore the European scholars totally neglected the Indian records based on Astronomy and Meteoroglogy. Blindly following their path, the Indian scholars also neglected the Astro - meteorological records of the past. Therefore the Indian historians could not fix the date of incidents precisely. It was only the late Lokamanya B. Stimulated by reading these two great works of Tilaka, I began studying Astronomy.

I went even deeper than him and could find dates of almost 60 incidents from the Maharashtra. About copies were distributed free of charge to many Universitites and scholars and we got some response. About scholars have appreciated the new approach, new method and strenuous labour behind this research. A part of this research paper was highly appreciated by the President of History Section Dr.

Pathak at the opricntal conference held in Visakhapatnam on Jan. Pathak highlighted my new approach and praised my method of fixing the date of Ramayana, on 6 th January , in the general session of the valedictory function. The Date of the Ramayana Uptil now very few scholars have dared to work on the problem of fixing the date of Rama and the Ramayana, because everybody is convinced that there is no mention of any evidence of measurement of time. However on deep study, I found many evidences to calculate and fix the various dates.

I achieved success in fixing the dates only because I understood the ancient Indian method of reckoning the time which is very ingenious and eternal because it is based on Astronomy. They were using seasonal months also. Madhu and 1 86 Madhava composed Vasanta Rtu.

Nabha and Nabhasya were the months of Varsa. Isa and Urja composed Sarad. Sisira started with the Winter Solstice 22 nd Dec. With the unique combination of Luni-Solar movements on the star path and the seasonal variation on the Earth they reckoned time, and this is the most accurate method because we can find out the period by this method even if thousands of years have elapsed.

The ancient sages knew that the lunar months are not fixed with the seasons. Even then they used it because by the lunar months, positions of the Sun and the Moon are recognised. The ancient sages had a tradition to mention Naksatra, Tithi, Paksa, Masa, Rtu and Ayana in the Sankalpa - a solemn vow to perform an observance of any function or ritual.

From this we can find out positions of the Sun and the Moon in the star path and position The Date of the Ramayana ml of' the Sun in relation to the Barth. With the help of the rate of precession of equinoxes we ean find out the dale, thousands of years ago.

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Bearing this in mind we will proceed to fix the time of the Ramayana. Before going to the Astronomical evidence let us see from other evidences how ancient is the Valmiki Ramayana. We have to decide the lime of Valmiki and Rama both. If we read Valmiki's Ramayana carefully, we arc convinced that Valmiki was a contemporary of Rama, because Valmiki composed the epic Ramayana while Rama reigned on this earth. He gave shelter to Seeta and made her sons recite the epic Ramayana and made them sing it before Rama.

Therefore the dates of Valmiki and Rama would be the same. All other books on the Ramayana mention that Valmiki was the first author of the Ramayana and he was contemporary of Rama. There is no evidence to deny this fact so we have to accept that the dates of the Ramayana, Valmiki and Rama are one and the same. External evidences To fix the date of the Ramayana we have to search through history. In this effort first we are attracted to the two dramas of Bhasa, namely Pratima and Abhiseka written on the theme of the Ramayana. Bhasa's time has been held to be the beginning of the Christian Era by many scholars.

But recent research points out the fact that there is no mention of any word related to Bauddha religion in these two dramas; so Bhasa is pushed back to years B. Naturally, Valmiki appears to be even more ancient. Sudraka is of the same age as Bhasa and he has mentioned Maruti in his drama Mrcchakalika. Raja Tarangini of Kalhana has mentioned the Ramayana.

Here I shall give a list of books with their dales which have referred to the Ramayana, proving that the Ramayana is more ancient than these books. This date is derived from the reference that the Summer Solstice was at , at the end of Sarpa Naksalra. It also slates equal day and night with the Sun on the head of Kritika 4 ,77 at the beginning of Aries. This gives exact date as 1 years B. All Budhisls, Jain and Greek literature mention Sravasti as the capital. In the Ramayana, Valmiki has given Ayodhya as the capital of Rama and he also says that Sravasti was established for Lava by Rama himself.

This fact shows that Valmiki was more ancient than Buddha, Mahaveera etc It is recorded in history that around years B. That proves antiquity of the Ramayana beyond B. Since that war there was no The Date of the Ramayana u9 habitation on this island. After Buddha the island was rehabilatcd'. The book is supposed to be written years B. Buddha died during years B. Then will be read as , and we will have to assume that the war took place years before Buddha's death i.

Naturally Valmiki must have been earlier than these methods of counting the years came into force. Saptarsi Kala or Loukika Kala or Kali Kala is a method of counting years since antiquity; but who formulated that and when was it formulated is unknown. In this unique method one hundred years are attributed to each of the 27 Naksatras and is held that Saptarsis Ursa major stay in one Naksatra for one hundred years. In reality stars do not move like this. The first Naksatra is Asvini.

Holding Saptarsis in Asvini, the years were counted from one to hundred. Then st year was held as the first year with Saptarsis in Bharani. After St completion of years in Bharani the was taken as the first year with Saptarsis in Krttika. In this way a cycle of 27 Naksatras was completed at the end of years.

Then again they used to begin counting of years with Aswini Naksatra. This method is similar to the modern era, wherein we count a century and add one to 99 years. Instead of describing time in centuries, the ancient Indians used the Naksatra - name. Today it is , they would say 98 years with Saptarsi in the Naksatra Purvasadha which is the 19 th Naksatra. Let me give one concrete example here to explain. Therefore the figure comes to These are the years of Saka Kala Sake. At the time when the king Ballalasena began his reign, the book was completed. What does this mean?

Munis were in Visakha. Visakha is the 1 6 lh Naksatra. That means years were completed and then 61 years of 1 6 lh century had passed. So in the modern language it was years, 61 years in the 16 th century. Now let us tally this with Saka Kala. Numbers are to be written leftwards so that the figure is Garga tells that years before the beginning of the Saka Kala Yudhisthira Kala was in use. Here we have to consider two statements. First is that years before Saka Kala the Yudhisthira Kala began. Second is that years before Yudhisthira Kali Kala began. Here we considered the period from the beginning of the Saptarsi or Kali Kala and came to the year as stated by Raga Tarangini.

It shows that both the methods were correct and were in use till Saka i. D, All these facts are considered just to show that Saptarsi Kala is the oldest but that too is not used by Valmiki in his epie Ramayana. This in turn shows that Valmiki and his Ramayana existed much before any method of counting the years like Saptarsi Kala came into operation. Let us consider one more point. It is said that when Yudhisthira was living the Saptarsis were in Magha, We have seen above that during the reign of Ballalasena at Saka or A.

Therefore, years earlier in B. Saptarsis were in Aswini. Saptarsi's were in Aswini. It is two hundred years later so that Saptarsis were two Naksatras ahead in Kritlika. By our calculation, at the time of Yudhisthira B. Is it a mistake? Let us take all the aspects into consideration. I have shown that Vyasa has given two Naksatras for each planet and the two positions are eight Naksatras apart, Sayana being eight places earlier than Nirayana. This is because Vyasa called Pusya as Aswini in his Sayana method. Because Krttika was equated with Magha, Saptarsis were thought to be in Magha instead of actual Krttika.

Later Vyasa, the author of Srimad Bhagavata, played the same trick as the original Vyasa, the author of the epic Mahabharata who prepared puzzles deliberately to deceive Lord Ganapati and the readers, but the trick was misplaced, there was no reason to insert a puzzle in the Bhagavata. In the Raja Tarangini, Kalhana states that at rd years of Kali Pandavas lived on this earth 6 I have proved the date of Yudhisthira as years B. Even this- system was not used by Valmiki.

Hence Valmiki must have lived prior to years B. Soorpanakha, Soumitri, R avana. Panini has differentiated Soorpanakha as the name and Soorpanakhi as the adjective. Hence Panini must have seen the Ramayana. Date of Panini is taken as B. So Panini is about 1 B. So Valmiki is much earlier than this. It is described in Valmiki Ramayana that Ayodhya and Lanka were fortified cities. So Valmiki and his Ramayana should be at least as old as B.

Guha suspected his intention and alerted his 8 own navy of ships and 50, naval soldiers. Such a big powerful naval force has never been described in India at or after the invasion of Alexander in B. So the description must be older than B. Valmiki of A. Valmiki has not composed even a single poem on it because he was far more ancient than these events. I have proved the date of Mahabharata as years B. So the Valmiki Ramayana is earlier than B. Some scholars try to show that the Mahabharata is earlier than the Ramayana.

The old tradition was to take the Naksatra at the Vernal Equinox as first in the list of Naksalras. Being dissatisfied with this custom, Visvamilra started taking the diagonally opposite site i. Autumnal Equinox to name the first Naksatra. So it was the period with Sravana at Autumnal Equinox when Visvamitra started this custom. Calculations show this period as years B. Visvamitra is famous from Ramayana and was a teacher of Rama. So Rama's period appears to be around years B. Here arc referred three kings P. So this Rama must be the son of Dasaratha.

So it is evident that Rama is more ancient than or is contemporary of the Rgveda. I think that the original Rgveda might have many Rchas on Rama, but as Valmiki had composed a separate epic on Rama. Vyasa excluded all those Rchas about Rama while editing the Rgveda. It is to be noted that Rgveda hymns were being written upto the Mahabharata age, that is why Santanu is mentioned in Rgveda, with his brother Devapi.

They show only one evidence to support their statement that Panchalas were present for coronation of Rama, and Panchalas are famous from the Mahabharata. I want to slate that they have not proved that the Panchalas were not present before the Mahabharata. They can not show it because Panchala dynasty started in the fourth generation from Ajameedha.

The five brothers were brave enough to establish a new kingdom and it was named as Panchala Desa. So it is not a wonder that Panehaias were present at the coronation of Rama. I present here evidences to show that Vaimiki and his Ramayana existed much before the Mahabharata. Vana 85 M slates that Vaimiki was wailing to visit Krsna.

Vaimiki had met Krsna when he started for! Vaimiki visited Bhisma Sami 41 - 1 and Yudhisthira Anusasana This Vaimiki was not introduced as the famous poet. That shows that this Vaimiki of Mahabharata era was a descendant of the famous poet Vaimiki who lived in the earlier era. Vyasa is so famous that had Vaimiki lived later than Vyasa, he should have referred to him. Even in the list of great sages Vaimiki has not included the name of Vyasa.

Only because Vyasa had not been born when Vaimiki composed his Ramayana. Had Vaimiki existed later, he should have been careful enough to note who was the king on the throne of Hastinapura. But it is not stated in the Ramayana because during the Ramayana era there was no king in Hastinapura powerful enough to be mentioned. This was the condition of Hastinapura at the time of Samvarana when the Ramayana might have been written. At least we can say that the Ramayana is written much before the Mahabharata. V No part of the Mahabharata is seen in the Ramayana.

No king from the period between Ramayana and Mahabharata is mentioned in the Ramayana. That shows antiquity of the Ramayana over the Mahabharata. Had Vaimiki lived after 16b The Scientific Dating of the Ramayana and the Vedas Pandavas he might have given simile of Pandavas or of any other king from the period after the Ramayana and the Mahahharata.

But it is not seen at all. All the stories written by Valmiki are about the kings more aneienl than Rama and their names are found in the dynasties prior to Rama. That clearly shows that Valmiki, his Ramayana and Rama himself are more aneienl than the Mahahharata. VI The Ramayana was very popular and famous during the time of Pandavas, therefore people easily talked of it often, e.

Mahahharata Drona states that when Satyaki was harshly criticised for killing Bhoorisrava, Satyaki said, ""In the past, sage Valmiki has really said that it is true that ladies should not be killed; but whatever is troublesome to the enemy must be done. Almost the same is the verse 29 rh and 30 th in the 14 Ramayana Yudha In the nick of time, in the fierce battle Satyaki remembered Valmiki Ramayana - that shows the great popularity of Valmiki Ramayana at the time of the Mahahharata war.

VIII Yudhisthira also had studied the Ramayana, so he says at Sabha 76 "Golden deer is an impossibility but still Rama falls prey to that attraction because at the time of impending calamity the intelligence is eclipsed. Il is a day-to-day fact lhal when we mcel a great personality wc go on talking something and we expect him lo tell something. Yudhisthira was aggrieved because an attempt was made lo abduct Droupadi by Jayadralha, so with grief he questioned Markandeya whether there was anybody so unlucky as him. Naturally, Markandeya told about Rama. Yudhisthira too, felt like hearing the Ramayana from him again.

It is no wonder, even today we hear the Ramayana from many people again and again. So it is wrong to assume from this fact that the Ramayana was not existent at the time of Y udhisthira. Markandeya did not tell Yudhisthira the true story that Seeta was abandoned by Rama as she was taken away by Ravana. Markandeya omitted this part deliberately just lo avoid tragedy of Droupadi being abandoned, thrown out by Yudhisthira. So one should not conclude that Uttara Kanda with Seeta- Tyaga was not existing at Yudhisthira's time.

X Valmiki writes that Hanumana asked Rama for a boon that he could live till Rama's story lasted on the earth and that Aapsaras should sing for him Rama's glorious biography. Exactly the same episode is narrated by Vyasa in the Mahabharata Vana Here Rama's story with exile in the forest for fourteen years is told. Here it is staled separately that Ullara 21 Kosala was also conquered by Bheema Thus it is evident that at the lime of the Mahabharala there were three different parts viz. Kosala, North Kosala and Ayodhya.

At ihc time of the Ramayana all these three were united together and were ruled by Rama alone. Before his death Rama divided the land into two parts. Ayodhya was devastated 5 at the time of Rama's death. Ayodhya appears to have got re-established between the Ramayana and the Mahabharata.

Drona 22 47 Kosala was famous because of the Ramayana and hence Vyasa had to make some mention of it in history. Bharata argued that Rajasuya is dangerous because it destroys Royal dynasties. Had the Ramayana been written after the Mahabharata, it would have cited the example of Rajasuya performed by Yudhisthira here. But it is not so because the Ramayana is more ancient than Yudhisthira. This simile clearly shows that Vyasa had read Valmiki Ramayana. Il must have been taken from Valmiki. Thus the sites of Rama-slory had historical importance at the time of the Mahabharata.

Thus there is a plenty of evidence showing that Vyasa had read Valmiki Ramayana before writing his Mahabharata. Vyasa has included the whole of Ramayana twice in his Mahabharata. Once Maruti told it to Bhima and then Markandeya told it to Yudhisthira. It is true that there is some difference between the story of Valmiki and that of Vyasa but it is minor and could have arisen due to lacunae in memory. For example, who killed Kumbhakarna? Even today scholars can not reply quickly whether Rama killed Kumbhakarna or Laxmana. They have to refer to the book before replying.

But, though referring to a book is easy in this modern times, il was very difficult in the ancient era of the Mahabharata. And a poet who is inspired strongly to compose poetry does not waste time in referring books. He depends solely on his memory and conceives a poem. Same thing happened with Vyasa and he wrote that Laxmana killed Kumbhakarna. Valmiki has stated that both Rama and Laxmana attacked Kumbhakarna but Rama killed him. So such minor differences are there, but they are negligible.

Hence we conclude that Valmiki Ramayana definitely existed at Mahabharata Era. The date of the Mahabharata is already fixed as years B. Here only Yajurveda is mentioned, Sukla Yajurveda is nol mentioned. Krsna Yajurveda is also not mentioned. That shows the antiquity of the Ramayana over Sukla Yajurvda which is composed around years B. Salapatha Brahmana which is a part of Sukla Yajurveda is also nol mentioned by Vaimiki. The date of Satapatha is fixed by the Late Mr.

Dixit as years B.

The Epic Riddle Of Dating Ramayana, Mahabharata

So the Ramayana must be more ancient than years B. I say so because there is a reference to Yajurveda in the Ramayana but which Yajurveda. Sukla or Krsna is not clarified showing the non-existence of these two versions, at the time of Vaimiki. Ganapati is not praised even at the beginning of Ramayana because there was no such tradition which started from the Mahabharata era. So the Ramayana is more antique than years B. The custom of Sandhya, Homa and Havana being done by ladies is from Rgveda.

From the Mahabharata till today no servant has dared to oppose the queen. So the Ramayana appears to be more ancient than the Mahabharata. There was no post of Purohita at the time of Mahabharata. It was an ancient tradition. Chitraratha Gandharva tells Yudhisthira about this ancient tradition and advises him to appoint one Purohita. Mahabharata Adi , This shows the antiquity of the Ramayana over the Mahabharata. Hanuman and other Vanaras 41 42 requested Tara, after the death of Vali, to govern. Vasistha suggested that Seeta should be coronated in place of Rama Draupadi or Kunti never went to war.

But Ramayana describes Kaikeyi going to war with Dasaratha as his driver and also saved Dasaratha on the battle field, for three nights. Rgveda also narrates women going to wars such as Vispala or Sachi Vrsakapi Sukta Namuchi sent his female army against Indra This shows that Ramayana people were very close to Rgveda people.

This indicates that drinking wine was not taken as a bad thing in both the times, suggesting the Rgveda and the Ramayana eras as close together. Probably in ancient era liqueur drinking was common among both the men and women. But as its bad effects were observed in due course, liqueur was held as a vice and women refrained from the liqueur. In the Mahabharata era, men like Krsna and Arjuna were shown drinking alcohol but Draupadi and Satyabhama were not drinking alcohol. This shows that Ramayana is much more ancient than the Mahabharata.

Hence Ramayana is more ancient. Leave aside Sati tradition because the tradition during Ramayana era was to remarry with a brother-in-lgw or any other person. Rama suggested Seeta to stay with Bharata Ayodhya 26, 24 to 26 , 44 or with any other person. Yuddha 1 15, 11 , Ruma and Tara actually behaved like that. The remarriage tradition is more ancient than the Mahabharata. It is a tradition of the Rgveda So the Ramayana is almost contemporary to Rgveda. The Rgveda period stretches from about B. This is a simple translation which shows the Sun between Kfttika and Bharani on 22 nd December.

Calculations with the rate of precession of equinoxes as 72 years per degree or years per Naksatra show the exact date of this verse as years B. So Taittiriya Samhita is of years B. Naturally, as Taittiriya Branch is mentioned in the Ramayana, Ramayana appears to be later than years B.

Now we have arrived at a conclusion that Ramayana is before the M ah a b ha rata i. So Ramayana period is from years B. Let us now see the evidences from the Ramayana to calculate the exact period. Internal evidences 1 Pusya Naksatra is given much prominence in the Ramayana. The importance of Pusya Naksatra is seen at 1 , , , , , The repeated mention of Pusya though it is not at all a bright constellation suggests that Pusya was highly esteemed then.

The probable reason for this importance is that the Vernal Equinox was at Pusya then, the date being to years B. During Ramayana, il was in Swati. The precession has an anticlockwise direction, so we have to count in reverse direction from mid-Swali to Ardra.

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Il comes to The rate of precession is 72 years per degree. Thus the new year used to start with thie Rainy season during Ramayana. The Rgveda suggests that the New Year used to start with the rainy season. Hence the year is called as 'Varsa' in relation to Varsa, the rainy season. The Tamil literature shows that in ancient times Hags were hoisted on the New Year day and prayers offered that sufficient rains be showered with lightning, producing streams of water every- where. Lightning and showers usually are seen in the beginning st of the rainy season at the Summer Solstice 21 June.

This bold statement is controversial to my thought expressed above in 2. But I say that this bold statement is a later correction, interpolation and quite unfit in the stream of Ramayana. If we accept that the onset of rainy season was in Sravana, the period of Ramayana will come to about years B. But so many evidences above are not showing that period.

So let us see if this bold statement is correct or not. Kiskindha 30 and 33 state that Rama rested for four months of the rainy season from Sravana to Kartika. Kartika was already over and 6arad was also nearing its end when Rama got angry. Hanumana also says that Sarad was nearing its end K. Kiskindha Sarga 53, Slokas 15,17,18,21,22 stale that after one month from fO the departure of Vanaras they could see the signs of Spring.

How could there be spring in Magha - only in two months after the cessation of the rainy season? Kiskindha 21, 22 state that Vanaras launched the campaign after the end of Asvina i. From Lanka Hanumana came back to Kiskindha, Rama went to Lanka and fought the war and then returned to Ayodhya in the month of Chaitra If rains started in Sravana, Chaitra should be in the Spring. Thus, all the events from Hanumana's first visit to Lanka to the return of Rama to Ayodhya, come in Spring. There is one more serious problem.

Seeta was abducted in Hemanta 56 Aranya 16 and she was given a time limit of one year only 61 to surrender to Ravana. She had told this fact to Hanumana to convey to Rama. They would have seen Seeta dead or seduced. But it was not the fact. She was alive and she was pure. So she must have been released in Hemanta. If Sravana was the beginning of the rainy season, Chaitra should be in Spring, but and 42 state that it was cold season, Sisira in Chaitra when Rama returned '.

Vasanta to 6isira wound up only in one month? It shows that 6ravana was not the beginning of rainy season. I s2 The word is not considered by the scholars and so were misguided. Bhadrapada Lunar month was of the beginning of showers and so was of the premonsoon. Thus all the descriptions point to the premonsoon in the Bhadrapada Lunar month. Premonsoon is the period before 21 June. It is natural that 21 June jor the Summer Solstice coincided with Asvina Pournima usually; but due to the shortness of Lunar year than the Solar year by From all these considerations, it is clear that rainy season did not start in Sravana.

Let us now reconsider these riddles using Rtus. Rama approached Kiskindha in Vasanta. He killed Vali in Greesma. Varsa, the rainy season was spent by Rama in Kiskindha 50 Hanumana went out and returned in Sarad. Then hurriedly Rama went to Lanka, fought the war and released Seeta in Hemata. Rama had set out for Forest-life Vanavasa in Chaitra 6 ' , so he must have returned after completion of fourteen years Yudh in Chaitra.

It was the spiritual power of Bharadvaja which produced the signs of Spring Yudh It was Chaitra in Hemanta so trees had shed their leaves Yudh 65 Next month i. Thus it is seen that Vaisakha Masa coincided with Sisira. From Asvini back to Mula there are ten Naksatras. The rate of precession which is anticlockwise is years per Naksatra. Therefore for a shift of ten Naksatras years must have been passed. So Ramayana must have taken place years ago, i. But this is an absolutely wrong notion. Lunar months do not constitute the Rtus. Rgvcda knew that the Sun is responsible for the formation of Rtus.

Therefore they formulated solar-seasonal months which are recorded in the Tailtiriya Samhita Rtus depend on the Sun while the Lunar months depend on the Moon and there is a difference in the number of days of the Solar year and the Lunar year. The Solar year consists of Therefore the seasons slide back on the Lunar months. This discrepancy is corrected by taking one Adhimasa in every third year. This method corrected the discrepancy for a few centuries but when the Sun precesses. Vasanta Rtu has two Masas, Madhu and Madhava. Vasanta Sampata or the Vernal Equinox is fixed at 21st March every year.

The calendar months are the solar months and are therefore fixed just like Arkaja Masas. Madhava Masa coincides with 22 March lo 21 April. Sukra means 22 April to 21 May. Suchi is 22 May lo 20 June. Nabhasya extends from 22 July to 21 August. Urja extends from 23 September lo 22 October.

Tapasya extends from 22 Jan. This arrangement of Arkaja Masas and the modern scientific calendar months will never change. If at all some change occurs then the Vernal Equinox will again be adjusted on the 21st March and new calendar will come in vogue. Now I present a table here to show the seasons, Rtus according to the modern scientific calendar as well as the Lunar months during the Ramayana period. There would have been a sliding back of ten days' period every year till the third year when one Adhimasa was taken to readjust the Lunar months with the Rtus.

Margasirsa 15 to Magha 1 5 5 Hemanta 23 rd Oct. Magha 1 5 - Chaitra 1 5 6 Sisira. Now-a-days all these constellations are seen together in Summer, but Rama had seen these in winter during Phalguna to Jyestha Masas. This change in the sky can occur only in a period of at least ten thousand years. So the Ramayana must have been written years ago. Pusya is a faintly visible Naksatra and canTe recognised only if it comes above the head. If Pusya is above the head Asvini must be at the western horizon at the sunset suggesting Hemanta in Phalguna and Chaitra Masas.

This shows the period between to years B. The Date of the Ramayana o31 6 Mars and Aldebaran: The simile of Yuddha is very vivid. Questioning Ramayana and Mahabharata is like questioning the very existence of India. Archaeological and literary methods can only provide approximate datelines. For determining the precise time of the Ramayana events, scientists use astronomical calculations. On the other hand, most of those trying to prove the epics are history are scientists.

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  4. For instance, at a global colloquium http: These scientists are studying facts, they are looking back in time at precession or the position of stars. They are not regurgitating the discredited writings of Karl Marx, the racist German who supported English rule over India. So how is astronomical dating done? To decipher the astronomical encodings has not been a trivial task, and not many have attempted to do so.

    It should be noted that the ancient Indians had a perfect method of time measurement. By noting a particular arrangement of the astronomical bodies, which occurs once in many thousand years, the dates of the events can be calculated. Dr Vartak has taken hundreds of illustrated passages from the epic to establish dates. Bala Kanda 18, Shloka 8. December 4, BCE, therefore, is the date of birth of Rama, when the four planets exalted. Ramayana occurred over years ago.

    Frankly, only an astrologer or astronomer can make any sense of it. Events — such as an eclipse, planetary or astral positioning or a comet sighting — mentioned in an epic like the Ramayana may have occurred subsequently or prior. Over a period of say, 20, years, a particular type of event could have happened several times. Stars shift position too vis-a-vis the earth so the star field we see in the night sky is not what the ancients saw years ago.

    This is called precession and has to be factored into all calculations. The idea is to back astronomical data with other reference points such as geography for instance, how many of those eclipses took place over Ayodhya in order to reduce the probability of error. The Daily Pioneer http: It has found that the Bhils, Gonds and the Kols communities are the true descendants of characters featured in Ramayana.

    The Kol tribe, found mainly in areas like Mirzapur, Varanasi, Banda and Allahabad in Uttar Pradesh, are the descendants of the Kol mentioned in the Ramayana, the study says. Guha, the Nishad king, who helped Rama cross the Ganga during his journey to the forests, is the ancestor of the present day Kol tribe. Who knows, further research could come up with more surprises.

    For, unlike the secularists, Macaulayites and communists who are unanimous that Rama never existed, the scientists are not adamant that the date is fixed. Unlike Krishna, who had the 16 kalas or qualities that makes one perfect, Rama had mastered only 14 kalas. The prince of Ayodhya is, therefore, imperfect and he shows it on several occasions, most starkly when he asks his wife to undergo a chastity test.

    Krishna would have probably publicly mocked and shamed the citizen instead of banishing his own queen. Flaws aside, Rama is loved by Indians because he takes sacrifice to a new level. He is a warrior prince who cheerfully gives up the greatest empire of the day so his step mother would not have the slightest reason to complain. He is a husband who lets go his wife because one man — just one —among his millions of subjects objected to her presence in the kingdom. Looking at things from the perspective of the modern era — where we instinctively genuflect before politicians — Rama was taking it too far, but for the king of Ayodhya his own comforts or that of his family mattered little.

    So how could he have even one unhappy citizen, howsoever boorish that person may be? In their moving and brilliant translation of the Ramayana, William Buck and B. Rama was well-honoured and well-loved. His presence filled the heart. Fame and wealth never left him. When he was king men were long in life, and lived surrounded by their children and grandchildren and all their families. The old never had to make funerals for the young.

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